ABDLs and sexual orientation

MacaronMaster and Blathers raised the idea of an LGBTQ+ forum in a thread under Administrative topics. I wanted to provide some evidence from 6 surveys of ABDLs relevant to that discussion. Unfortunately the thread was closed so I couldn’t post it there. However I thought it might be of general interest.

ABDLs are vastly more likely to have a minority sexual orientation than the general population.

The Wikipedia article ‘Demographics of Sexual Orientation’ cites a meta analysis of the frequency of sexual orientations in the general population –

“Surveys in Western cultures find, on average, that about 93% of men and 87% of women identify as completely heterosexual, 4% of men and 10% of women as mostly heterosexual, 0.5% of men and 1% of women as evenly bisexual, 0.5% of men and 0.5% of women as mostly homosexual, and 2% of men and 0.5% of women as completely homosexual.”

Zamboni states, “Estimates of sexual minorities in North American cities are as large as 15.4% in San Franciso (Gates, 2006).”

In the ABDL surveys the proportion of respondents who identified as exclusively homosexual ranged from - 8.9% (Bent1); 8 to 13% (Grey1 to 4); 14% (Fuss); 18% (Zamboni, males); and 22% (Speaker, ‘primarily’ homosexual). Senese did not report on sexual orientation. We can have a high level of confidence in an estimate of around 16%, a point mid way between the two large scale professional surveys. As the overwhelming proportion of the survey populations are male, the appropriate point of reference is the 2% of males in the general population who identify as exclusively homosexual. On this basis ABDLs are around eight times more likely to be homosexual than the general population.

The proportion of survey respondents who identified as bisexual ranged from 19% (Zamboni, males); 21.3% (Bent1); 22% (Speaker); 24 to 32% (Grey 1 to 4); and 44.7% (Fuss). The large range may be influenced by the wording of the questions. Zamboni and Bent asked respondents to make a distinction between identifying as being heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual. Fuss and Grey gave bisexual respondents the option of distinguishing between those who were equally attracted to both genders, and those who leaned towards, or were more often attracted, to each gender. It appears that the three option choice in Zamboni and Bent may understate the prevalence of those who with a bisexual orientation. On the basis of the above we can have a high level of confidence that the lower end of the prevalence of ABDLs with a bisexual orientation is in the low twenty percent range. On this basis ABDLs are around four times more likely than the general population to be bisexual.

Of course, the much higher representation of people with minority sexual orientations results in a substantially lower proportion of heterosexuals amongst ABDLs compared to the general population. The proportion of people with an exclusively heterosexual orientation ranges from – 37% (Fuss); 50 to 59% (Grey1 to 4); 58% (Zamboni, males); 60.2% (Bent1); and 74% (Speaker, ‘primarily’ heterosexual). Based on all the above data we can have a moderate level of confidence that heterosexuals constitute around 55 to 60% of the ABDL population. The substantial minority reported in Fuss, the latest large sample professional survey where the wording of the question was arguably more valid, is a significant contra-indication. It is possible that future surveys will corroborate Fuss and overturn the current position. For this reason the confidence in the assessment that those with an exclusively heterosexual orientation are a narrow majority cannot be given a high confidence.

Some of the surveys also sought to identify the prevalence of those who were asexual (disavowing sexual expression) or autoerotic (preferring masturbation and disavowing partners).

For those who identified as asexual the values were 4% (Fuss, analloerotic) and (Grey3 & 4).

For those who identified as autoerotic the values were 4-5% (Grey3 & 4, solo), and 7% (Speaker, ‘solitary sex’). Zamboni reported 5% who were attracted to neither males or females, and could be either asexual or auto-erotic. Bent1 gave respondents of option of choosing ‘no comment’ for the question on sexual orientation and returned a value of 9.6%.

On the basis of the above, we can say with moderate confidence that a small minority of ABDLs are either asexual or autoerotic. A high level of confidence is not appropriate as only one peer-support survey (Grey3 and 4) allowed respondents to distinguish between being asexual and autoerotic. The two large sample professional surveys agreed on the size of the population but lack clarity about its composition.

The six ABDL surveys are -

Zamboni = ‘Adult Baby/Diaper Lovers: An Exploratory Study of an On-line Community Sample’ based on a 2011 survey by the late Dr Brian D. Zamboni, assisted by BitterGrey. The survey can be obtained free, on the articles tab, of abdiscovery.com.au .

Fuss = ‘Self-Reported Childhood Maltreatment and Erotic Target Identity Inversions Among Men with Paraphiliac Infantilism’ Joannes Fuss, Laura Jais, B. Terrence Grey, Sascha R. Guczka, Peer Briken, Sarah V. Biderman. Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy Volume 45, 2019, Issue 8

Grey1 to 4= BitterGrey’s 1st to 4th surveys which can be found on understanding.infantilism.org .

Bent1 = Adult Baby Survey #1, the results are available free to subscribers to the abdiscovery.com.au website (subscription is free gets you on the mailing list).

Speaker - Thomas Speaker’s PhD thesis which can be found on understanding.infantilism.org .

Senese =An Exploratory Study of Adult Baby-Diaper Lovers’ Characteristics in an Italian Online Sample. by Antonietta Lasala, Francesco Paparo, Vincenzo Paolo Senese and Raffaella Perrella. (Assisted by BitterGrey). International Journal of Environmental Research and Public Health (2020).

Department of Psychology, University of Campania “Luigi Vanvitelli”, 81100 Caserta, Italy

Regards. Dylan.

That is interesting data. Here is my take on the idea. While I appreciate the sentiment and suggestion to a degree, I do not see a need for a separate forum. Here is why. The idea of a new forum is to promote inclusion, as the basis of this site is about the inclusion of people with common underlying wants and needs, it negates the need for more inclusion based on sexual orientation. There is not a category of ABDL that is specific to only LGBTQ or to only straights.

To further add to that, this forum is incredibly open, as it should be, regardless of political, religious, sexuality, fetish, or whatever. I get sometimes the discussions get heated, but by allowing them to happen in the first place it is promoting inclusion. People don’t have to agree on everything. And in this case they are allowed to express themselves. Im sure that there are homophobes on this site, who probably hate me for existing but they keep it to themselves and rarely is it seem in the forums. It is always immediately shut down by others.

On a site like this people are going to typically be more open and understanding. We are all adults who love diapers and being our inner child. People are going to throw the same hatred at us regardless of our orientation to say the least. Bottom line I think the necessary inclusion of this site removes the need for separate inclusion based on orientation. If anything it might pull more of a divide.

Sorry for the rant just my two cents.

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I would like to say, I DID NOT SUGGEST a completely new fourm okay never happened, not saying I am offended by it I am not, just this assumption I DID also is false, I appreciate the sentiment, I dont’ have a strong opinion I even said that in the thread (where Mac asked for a separate forum) haha to Mac, so yeah just putting that out there. all I said about any forum changes was that newbies and the mature forum thread never mix well lmao

I think having a separate thread could be help, but at the same time could be counterproductive, again Like Midwest said I dont want an entire different space for LGBTQ+ issues because it could promote maybe a type of thinking that is "oh this is the space where the GAYS are mwahaha " and lol I dont need that in my life haha, I think this site is very diverse, if it wasn’t and I saw queerphobia and transphobia running rampant yes then maybe it would be needed, but its NOT adisc is actually pretty inclusive (they could change orientation to sexuality and let you type what you want, same with sex could put gender, and let you type what you please but this site was created when the dinos woke lmao and we have come a long way with terminology) the people are welcoming and if someone says some shit out of line someone reports it <3 its not a huge deal. FOR ME at least, in no way am I speaking for all my LGBTQ+ peeps, if your opinion differs from me that is chill haha <3 you’re valid to want a space <3

hope this didnt sound like I was comming for anyone totally not <3 I think the conversation is good and could help people grow <3

as for oreintation my Oreintation is bisexual but my sexual identity (gay, bisexual, pan, etc) is queer, it just means FOR ME that I dont care about your bits or your gender <3 if you my type we vibe <3 (but not now in a relationship and am monogamous lol)

I think it is so interesting that a ton of us are LGBTQ+, maybe it is just coincidence cant say or maybe we are just a superior breed :cool: LMAO

Haha jk my best friend on here is cis het male so XD I am totally kidding I promise <3

But yeah thats cool <3

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Hmmm, and once again, asexuality seems wholly overlooked. Guess we’re the new social whipping boy on the block. :cry:

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Hey DylanLewis,

THX for this very interesting summery!

Hmmm, maybe you overlooked something?

I dont see the point or need for an lgbt forum, not saying there cant be, but i would rather not need to use one when, off topic or mature would do just fine,

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I don’t think posting a locked issue does any favors. Like I get that this is interesting, the link, it seemed suspected though even without the surveys. while nice info and all, I do not think it is right to post this in this section and furthermore repeating an issue of a locked thread. Plus the LG section to an extent covers some transgender there, and that gets little traffic. I think there was an idea to have a little boy counterpart but I forgot what they said why not having it.

Plus some issues in that regard get heavily political, hence why the mature section exists.

Okay, but did you ever notice on the whole, asexuality gets almost no attention at all? In my dealings with family, friends and acquaintances other than here, the subject is either overlooked or avoided. Or minimally dealt with, like nibbling on a new food to appease a host.

I have family who are bisexual and we often talk about this very subject…and it seems rather strange at first that they bring it up knowing about my hyperminority status, but it’s interesting to note that they do because they understand. How? They say that they have had gay and lesbian (and not merely straight) people come up to them and arrogantly tell them “Make up your f***ing mind! You can’t be both!”

I’ve had my own father scoff at my asexuality: one time, during discussion after telling him I no longer had sexual desire, he shot me a mocking look, muttered “Heh!” and walked out. Odd for a man who once said he’d love and accept me, “even if [I was] full-on gay”. Moments like that tend to firmly drive reality home.

At the table of human sexuality, there seem to be three legs: heterosexuality, LGBTQ+…and asexuality. We’re here and not really going anywhere. We’re not very ornate but we still do our part holding the table up. Can we be accepted by the other two legs which seem to live as a result of the expression of their genitalia? After seeing the writing/production staff of Riverdale do a full-stop balk on Jughead’s asexuality…it leaves room for doubt.

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Interesting topic and I’m sorry I was sure we used to have an LGBQT+ forum. However I would take issue with your first set of data the figures for those of us on the LGBTS+ seems incredibly small especially given the USA’s population. I’ve just looked at the UK statistics and the % of those describing as hetero is falling year on year, whilst in the 0ver 16 and under 30 age group those identifing as lgbqt has increased with nearly 16% seld identifying as on the rainbow. They also show that for whatever reason nearly 3% of the population refused to answer.

BobbiSue, if you look up the full acronym for LGBQT+ you will see it has changed over time, now it reads something like :-

Lesbian, Gay, Bi, Queer, Questioning, Transgender, Asexual, Pansexual, Intersex, Demisexual, Non-binary, Genderqueer, Genderfluid, gender non-conforming and would you belive it Ally (IE Cisgendered). or LGBQQTAPIDNGGGA hence the shorthand LGBQT+ and there are other definitions within the acronym for instance in the L and G sections contain women who have sex with women but don’t class as L and same in the G, men who have sex with man but don’t identify as Gay.

The only issue I see is, why should you pigeon hole anyone based on sexuality? Homosexual and heterosexual people (and anything in between) should be able to share the same spaces. I see segregation as a bad thing.

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We do share the same space but people on the LGBQT+ spectrum are usually shunned by the “straight” community so our share of the space is very small. unfortunately we are subjet to verbal and physical abuse, severe beatings, rape and murder and suicide and self harm in far greater %'s than the hetero community. We face victimisation every day because of our orientation from simply job applications to just about anything else including religion as even on adisc we have had people of “faith” calling us abominations and that if “we prayed to God, he would HEAL us” (block caps mine), We don’t need healing, we aren’t sick or weird and neither is it a learnt condition, our brains are hard wired this way and we are born like this.

As an example after a lot of thought and prayer I came out o my church leader as BI, within 10 minutes I was kicked out of the church completly.

There are countries where being anything other then hetero will get you executed by the state. Look at the US prison figures, biggest prison populaton is People of Colour, then the minority gang members and then guess who? If you really want to make a difference then contact your chief of police, mayor, senator or congress men and get them to ensure that the legislation that is already in place gets acted on.

I’m sorry you have to deal with that. It seems a lot of people have a hard time accepting or relating to things they are not. Unfortunately at times it does make us hippocrates to some degree or another.

I hope you don’t feel excluded here LGBTQ issues should not be about sex, rather they are about acceptance of being allowed to love whom you want regardless of who they are. Asexuals are still more than capable of love. Sex is just a side thing that some people do. Gender is up to how you feel. Straights are included in this as well. Love whomever you choose to love and accept those whom love differently.

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The solution to these painful situations is not through segregation in my opinion. People need to share spaces in order to see that we are really all the same. Walking talking meat bags.

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Actually Gender is a lot more complicated that how you feel it’s how you literally see yourself, hence the Transgendered people. Cisgenderd means you identify with the sex you were born with. Why do male ab’s want to be treated as little girls, are they cisgendered and acting out a role? Is there some sort of gender conflict going on?

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I put everything under a marginalized umbrella to convey a point that it is about acceptance. If I were to go into all the specific realities of it all I would have written a thousand page article. In reality it is all very complicated and cannot be just put into one basket or size fits all, but it can be covered by the same basic idea of accepting people for who they are and who they love.

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You are absoultely right, asexuality gets extremely overlooked, and the SPECTRUM of asexuality gets especially over looked, you are valid I love your thoughts and YOU ARE VALID GIRL <3 I think some" sexualities" are easier for people to “understand” because people view everything with a hyper sexual lense, this is why some straight men think lesbians are hot and gay men are not. <3 and I hear you thanks for sharing <3 it is so appreciated

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sorry but apart from less than 3 what does <3 mean, not all of us were brough up with mobile phones!

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haha it means heart XD

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